開發者會議紀錄 DevMeeting 20170709

  • Mac智慧挖礦(Mac Smart Mining) PR#1936OSX Background Mining的幫忙下完成了
  • ZeroMQ 距離提交到github上不遠了。 JSON PRC跟ZeroMQ的指令可能在初期還會更動。
  • MRL 開始著手寫打算跟SubAddresses 一起發布的文案
  • hyc 想要聽聽看各方對於LMDB使用條款改變的想法
  • Pigeons 開始彙整在Android NDK上加入Docker file的事宜
  • FFS(論壇資助系統)的重新規劃
    • 讓整個流程更明確一點
      • 拿超額募款來說好了, 現在超額的部分就流入一般公積金, 準備給以後的FFS計畫使用
    • 對某些計畫來說需要有里程碑不是甚麼好事
    • FFS的處理狀況容得下沒資助的人置喙的空間嗎?
      • Mooo 建議說他應該可以寫一個投票平台來確認那些人是有資助的
    • 如果有人有資助, 可是不真的”夠格”討論技術問題呢?
  • gkruja 提供了一些新開發的Android 錢包的螢幕截圖: http://imgur.com/a/mluUb

以上翻譯來自於紀錄原文: https://monerobase.com/wiki/DevMeeting_2017-07-09

完整會議紀錄
fluffypony> 1. Greetings
fluffypony> 2. Brief review of what’s been completed since the previous meeting
fluffypony> 3. Code + ticket discussion / Q & A
fluffypony> 4. Reimagining the FFS (discussion)
fluffypony> 5. Any additional meeting items
fluffypony> 6. Confirm next meeting date/time
fluffypony> going to skip 1 because I think we’re all mostly here
fluffypony> 2. Brief review of what’s been completed since the previous meeting
fluffypony> loads of stuff, lots of PRs in process and getting close to merge
fluffypony> and then the new website of course
fluffypony> 3. Code + ticket discussion / Q & A
fluffypony> so I’d like to just have a quick step through some PRs that are still in the wings
hyc> been getting deluged by readline and new sync commits
fluffypony> #1936: any input?
moneromooo> It’s marked as do not merge, so I’ve not looked in ages. Not sure whether revler’s still around.
hyc> He commented 9 days ago to close it in favor of #2055
pero> ^
fluffypony> oh I missed that
fluffypony> thanks hyc
dEBRUYNE> Which is merged already :-P
hyc> even better ;)
nioc> moneromooo: yes revler is still around
fluffypony> ok - 2023 is waiting until after the Sept fork, right? monero ([email protected]) has joined
monero> [monero] fluffypony closed pull request #1936: DO NOT MERGE - Mac smart mining (master…smart-mining-mac) https://git.io/vSmfU
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moneromooo> Yes.
fluffypony> ok
fluffypony> #2044: tewinget, there are pending comments
fluffypony> maybe we can get this merged sometime in the next century
dEBRUYNE> tewinget commented on that here fwiw asshat360 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
dEBRUYNE>
tewinget> dternyak: seems reasonable. it’d have to be on a case-by-case basis as some other things are ramping up to keep me a little busier, but for now I plan to have all the suggestions / notes from moneromooo addressed by the end of today.
moneromooo> What concerns me is that there were misc commits adding/changing RPC, and some of the stuff (ie, getinfo) is kinda reverting those.
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nioc> fluffypony: tewinget said he would deal with it by the end of the day
moneromooo> It might be a pita to go through everything to check all is ported. vtnerd_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
fluffypony> moneromooo: we’ll run both JSON RPC and 0MQ in parallel for the moment anyway
fluffypony> so that should reveal it
fluffypony> #2056: needs to be backed up by a final MRL write-up
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fluffypony> which I believe is WIP
fluffypony> kenshi84: ^^
knaccc> i.e. 2056 should not be merged prior to an MRL being published?
_Slack>
jollymort> speaking of which, wouldn’t it be simpler to c&p the write-up from #2056 into a .md file?
_Slack>
jollymort> i mean, it’s all there; but not in fancy TEX format
fluffypony> @jollymort nobody wants to review it unless it’s in fancy TeX :-P
hyc> phototypesetter-ready copy or go home
fluffypony> lol
fluffypony> ok everything else is still WIP
hyc> Is this a good time to mention, https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/85 still hasn’t gotten much feedback
hyc> which is a bit surprising, considering the intensity of the IRC chat
ArticMine> Yes this needs feedback
ArticMine> Project licensing
moneromooo> Those can get merged: 2126 2131 2132 2133 (if diff agrees) 2135 2140 2142
moneromooo> Some newer ones are also simple, but too new I guess.
fluffypony> moneromooo: tks
fluffypony> hyc: cross-post it to Reddit maybe?
moneromooo> 2138 too if someone is qualified to review (I am not).
fluffypony> ok
hyc> hmm. reluctant to face the low signal-to-noise ratio on reddit with that ticket, but perhaps that’s the only way to get eyes on it
fluffypony> anything else on this or can we move ahead?
moneromooo> I’d like to get guinea pigs for https://github.com/moneromooo-monero/bitmonero/tree/sync :)
moneromooo> It’s mostly working fine (pending iDunk’s latest test).
iDunk> …ahem…
moneromooo> :/
fluffypony> lol
moneromooo> Well, maybe later.
hyc> would be nice to include a script to monitor network stats
vtnerd_> moneromooo : I have a review in progress of that branch that I hope to get out iDunk envisions more #2149 commits :)
moneromooo> Ah, I’ve got to squash before it’s reviewable.
hyc> and quantify difference in bandwidth usage
vtnerd_> ah so its not reviewable?
vtnerd_> oh you mean squash the commit history
hyc> the commit msgs are all so enlightening so far ;)
moneromooo> Well, if you look at the diff itself, it should be. But it’s a lot of shitty commits atm.
moneromooo> hyc: there’s a new sync_info command which kinda does that.
hyc> oh, cool
hyc> but you’d also need that cmd in a before- patch, for comparison
mattcode> can we frame the commit messages from #2149 and put them in a gallery?
moneromooo> Ah, it doesn’t really apply before the patch. I expect people would just time a sync before and after.
hyc> :D
hyc> I think we could just grab ifconfig stats or something instead.
hyc> but whatever
moneromooo> I used iftop.
moneromooo> A bit handwavy though.
moneromooo> But at some point after startup, it’s the CPU that’s the bottleneck.
pero> nethogs does it per process
hyc> ok. that’s a good position to be in then.
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fluffypony> ok
fluffypony> moving on?
iDunk> Damn monero users. It would sync in no time if only there weren’t any transactions.
hyc> Who is familiar with Docker to review #2138?
hyc> obviously I’ve already done those steps manually, to build Android binaries. LIndividu has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
pigeons> I’ll take a look, but I find new docker oddities and workarounds daily
hyc> cool
tewinget> oh dear, late. sorry about that.
hyc> ok I guess that’s it for open tickets
tewinget> on my laptop; idk if I ever checked if I got my irc set up right on here; hyc ACK if you see this.
hyc> tewinget yes?
tewinget> kk
fluffypony> ok
fluffypony> 4. Reimagining the FFS (discussion)
moneromooo> So… moving on… luigi1111, any news about N-1/N multisig theory ? :)
moneromooo> nevermind
fluffypony> so
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fluffypony> the FFS has worked fine the last few years, but we need to formalise some of the processes
fluffypony> for eg. what do we do with over-funding? currently we put it into the general fund and then use that for future FFS proposals
fluffypony> but I’m open to suggestions
_Slack>
rehrar> I wrote something up for it, and it had mixed feedback. https://github.com/rehrar/meta/tree/master/FFS
moneromooo> Maybe there could be a running “monero core team” ffs, with
pinky up> 1 million monero limit…
_Slack>
rehrar> A good deal of feedback said it was too formal, and in the Terms the Conclusion should go at the top as an Intro instead, but yeah. Any feedback is welcome. :)
hyc> does that mean the next FFS proposal that gets submitted automatically gets a head start?
fluffypony> hyc: we give every FFS proposals a head start anyway
hyc> ok m8tion has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
fluffypony> also pero had some thoughts
fluffypony> iirc on time frames and so on
pero> hmmm yea i could look at this
pero> timeframes and scope i’d like to see more detailed in my SOWs than i have seen so far in the FFSs
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pero> ;)
pero> it’s really hard to manage work if these things arent defined
pero> and mediation/dispute resolution is impossible
pero> what i was thinking really was to have some sort of template for prospective fundraisers
gkruja> maybe have 2 week sprints where the devs report there work so people know thats its being worked on actively even though the time frame is pushed back due to difficulties that could come up?
tewinget> “sprints” …
pero> -_-
moneromooo> You run if you want dude. I’m coding.
tewinget> gkruja, other than the term “sprints” which has a bit of a negative connotation from what I can tell, that doesn’t seem like a bad idea.
pero> maybe 2 weeks isnt that bad to have it coincide with the dev meetings - but not all FFS work is dev wwork
pero> yea precisely tewinget
fluffypony> milestones are the reporting periods
mattcode> The Monero Enterprise Alliance needs to promote agility in the workplace, so we should all sprint every two weeks.
fluffypony> mattcode: hence the creation of MEAT
tewinget> we know how fluffypony loves his MEAT.
pero> well i typically insert checkpoints before milestones in projects
fluffypony> the problem with milestones is that they aren’t always backed up by timeframes
pero> so i know if my milestones arent going to be hit
pero> and something can be actively done about it
fluffypony> pero: that might work, but might also be too formal, we need to balance it with it being accessible to part-time contributors
hyc> and what are our choices of things that can be done about it? Should we have a list of those spelled out?
pero> usually solutions arent that clear cut ;p
pero> might just be a matter of documenting a pattern of missed deadlines
gkruja> the progress updates could be determined on a per project basis
endogenic> better would be to list potential problems
endogenic> answers w/o the problems are sure not to match
tewinget runs and hides again
tewinget> >_>
pero> ;p
_Slack>
rehrar> In my write up, the contract that was funded is the active contract, and if a change needs to be made for reasons then it needs to be brought before the community where the reasons for change and the proposed changes are brought up, and the community can decide whether it is acceptable or not.
fluffypony> rehrar: but then where’s the forum for that? the dev meetings?
_Slack>
rehrar> Or community meeting
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rehrar> Whichever is more appropriate
_Slack>
rehrar> Dev meeting for coding things, community for non-coders things
pero> well the missed deadline example is from ‘real world’ tewinget … usually you need a documented pattern like that if you want to sever a contract and fire someone
pero> bring on a new resource/vendor
fluffypony> yeah true, I think the dev workgroup is better suited to analysing whether something is acceptable or not
_Slack>
rehrar> And as long as it’s announced that a decision will be made in the upcoming meeting well beforehand, there should be no complaints that someone wasn’t able to be present to vote.
endogenic> voting is a tricky concept
moneromooo> OTOH, decision ought to be in the hands of the donators for that particular project. Maybe I need to code some voting thing where one can prove they paid to a ffs…
pero> another thing with better defined scope/schedule/budget
_Slack>
rehrar> And that’s a good point Moneromooo, should a person who didn’t donate have any sway in the vote?
pero> is that we can manage what happens when ‘contractors’ go over budget
pero> tweinget and rehrar surely went much over what they estimated
endogenic> i don’t think voting should be used, personally, unless it’s limited to people who are actually qualified
pero> and unhappy resources are poorly performing resources from my experience
_Slack>
rehrar> I did?
ArticMine> Yes but should it be donators overall or donators to a specific FFS?
iDunk> When I donated to moneromooo’s latest FFS, I was late and he was already funded. I donated anyway and wished I had a way to direct the donation to him anyway.
ArticMine> I mean we are putting general funds into these
endogenic> we only need to resort to voting in the absence of being able to determine what the problem actually is
endogenic> in any given case
_Slack>
rehrar> Can we vote via masternode?
endogenic> genius
fluffypony> lol
moneromooo> I didn’t say anything becuse I am this biased, but Alice donating to Bob’s clearly shows the intent.
fluffypony> soon™
moneromooo> *thus
pero> so the FFS should have an ability or mechanism for the contractor to demonstrate a need for increased budget as well
pero> and the excess donations can be used partly for this ‘contingency fund’
endogenic> one problem is that it will be difficult to achieve consensus on what the problem is if some people who are voting have an interest in people not agreeing that such a thing is a problem
_Slack>
rehrar> Maybe we can tackle this in Community Meeting too.
endogenic> so there needs to be some kind of standard about what is more important - maintaining those interests, or the solution to the actual problems
fluffypony> pero: increased budget = new proposal
hyc> dunno. as I see it, FFS means you pitch a flat rate for a project. Then how you manage your time is your own business, but there’s no such thing as a budget overrun
tewinget> pero: on that note, I had trouble deciding originally for the zmq thing whether to do hourly milestones or progress milestones. I think requiring both might be a good idea. Either one can be the milestones for payouts, but the other should be tracked for progress as well imo. * Lloydimiller4 ([email protected]/lloydimiller4) has joined
tewinget> I’m just going off of “what would I do differently”.
moneromooo> FTR, the kovri meeting is just starting too.
hyc> ah we need to wrap this up then * lithiumpt ([email protected]) has joined
gkruja> if that’s it then i can post my small gallery again for you guys and all the nice people on Reddit to see
gkruja> http://imgur.com/a/mluUb
moneromooo> I’ll still be around in an hour :)
moneromooo> (to prod luigi, arf arf)
endogenic> see y’all again in 2 weeks?
luigi1111> making lunch :-)
tewinget> I’ll be out cold in like 5 minutes. I’ll update sometime tonight (well, tomorrow morning/early afternoon probably for you EU folks – I seem to be on like GMT - 10 as far as sleep goes)
fluffypony> yup
fluffypony> two weeks™